IFS Assets CollABorative: Think Tank - EAM Predictions for 2025
Date of Meeting: 21 January 2025 10:00 AM US Eastern Standard Time
Jon Mortensen Presentation:
Slide: Asset Management Predictions
- Let me first of all welcome everybody for 2025. It's a strange year already for me. Things have been very interesting in different places of the world.
Slide: Assets: Tentative 2025 Calendar
- But this year we have, first of all, just touched on the line up that we're doing. Predictions is sort of that think tank thing we're doing today, which is not necessarily getting down into a lot of detail on what we do in areas but next month, we're going to be covering off determining repair versus replace. Followed in March by the road map for the solution so everybody can get a good handle on that. We've got a combined tech talk in April and May, another think tank about incorporating EST. I know this is a hot topic in Europe, maybe not so much a hot topic in North America anymore, but we'll wait and see how that pans out. In June, we'll be looking at using our operational intelligence platform, how that moves within our solution set and what it means for asset performance management and the direction we're taking there. That will be a particularly interesting session, which I would recommend. We'll be doing a combined tech talk in September about AI. As everybody knows, we're on a big AI journey we'll be talking about that more today. October, Fleet management will be the focus, November, Unified Support and in December we'll be talking about digital twins and visualisation because we've got some fantastic stuff coming up in that area this year and I want everybody to know about it.
Poll: Have you read our asset management predictions for 2024 and 2025?
- Could let me know whether you have read at 2024 predictions 2025 predictions that should pop up on your screen. If it's not, you'll find it in the chat. But really what I'm interested in to know if anybody's actually read what our predictions are last year or this year.

- So there we have it. 50% of the group hasn't read them, so we might have to do just a little talk about that, we did we have 13% of read both and I suspect that's me and Kevin. We've had 1/4 of people have read 2024 but not 2025, and again somebody has read 2025 but not 2024. That helps me understand how good people are at knowing where I'm coming from when I talk about when I talk about these things.
Slide: Predictions
- So, if I look at it from that perspective, last year in 2024, I did the prediction piece and I have popped the link up on the screen for anybody who's interested in going in and having a read of that.
- https://blog.ifs.com/2024/01/ifs-predictions-2024-enterprise-asset-management
- But we basically put out three predictions for this year. In the first prediction, we put out that we're at a tipping point where 51 percent or more people in maintenance, we'll be using mobility and I've been talking mobility for about 20 years. It's a slow up taking many areas of our industries, but it's also a bigger uptake in other areas.
- The second one was that we'd start seeing more people looking for ISO 55000 plus compliance and that was on the basis that the Institute of Asset Management and the technology team for putting together the standards for asset management would be releasing a new version, ISO 55000 first came out in 2014. Again, Kevin was involved in the very initial panels and the first meetings in the US on that. But they did a re-release in 2024. So, we'll have a look at some of the information associated with that.
- And we also predicted that artificial intelligence would become more commoditized, and that sort of fits very much within our narrative.
- Then for this year, our three core predictions. And Kevin sort of placed this together, is that capital efficiencies will improve by at least 5% in organisations using EAM software or asset life cycle management software. I should be very specific on that. Kevin talked a great deal about that in the December session.
- There would be greater resiliency and accuracy in project cost projections and it will save businesses around 15% in overall cost.
- And the last prediction for this year is that maintenance capacity will expand by up to 30%, supporting a full asset life cycle of mythology. And we may dive into what that means exactly and how we can look at it in terms of success.
- https://blog.ifs.com/2024/12/2025-the-year-of-asset-lifecycle-management
Poll: What is your primary mobile solution for maintenance?
So, as I as I look through this, there's quite a wide range of mobility for maintenance.

Customer 1:
- F: I want to clarify my response. We are using Novacura flow for many things, mobile, recording in for example from the STOS with the warehousing and porch. But since we are operating rigs made of mainly steel offshore network, availability is a limiting factor and online support is not available all over our rigs, so we can't roll out full work order at the moment, because there is no proper solution with offline support.
- R: Right. So I'm not going to take offence. Our mobile work order solution does have full offline capability for everything it does do.
- F: I've actually rolled out, when I was working as a consultant and then we got the response that you will phase out the old MBO solution. But then IFS changed their minds and it was kind of hard to know what leg to stand on there.
- R: I will take that on the chin. Absolutely. Thank you.
Customer 2:
- F: So we've got 3 legacy systems at the present moment in time. The one we've had the longest is Cognito. We started using it in 2001 / 2002 as an analogue system, changed it to a digital system. And it was just reliable. We moved away for a period of time to it a third party and lasted 6 months with them because of the reliability. So, the one thing when you move to a mobile solution and you change everything in the background and you need something that is stable, that works. So, our next move will be to bring all three to the IFS platform.
- R: It's a very positive statement. I get that the amount of work that you have to do at the back end to support the front end is usually very important, particularly in trying out terms of workflow and in making sure the right data etcetera is in a good position to do that with.
- F: And culture change.
- R: The culture change. Yeah. And it's harder. What's the average age of your workforce?
- F: Last time I looked it was over 48 so that now would take it to possibly closer to 53 now.
Slide: Mobility
- That comes down to my first component that I was going to talk about why people use mobility and that would be staff retention would be one of the things that would be stopping you moving forward because people are very used to the way they do things. So that change management aspect becomes very difficult. But the other one is attracting younger employees. And that is because younger employees was born with one of those things in their hands and they expect to be able to work with mobile and not just complicated stuff, but in the technologies that used to with working with other applications. There is a desire that these become easier to use and friendlier to use, etcetera. And the other thing is it shortens cycle times to get work from the fields into the system. And providing almost real time viewpoints of where things are. Assume you're on online mode and on offline mode as we were just discussing a few moments ago.
- Some of the things that are interesting to look at. Mobility also provides information at fingertips, so most of what we do, make sure that you can get your documentation and everything else, your work instructions, et cetera in real time when necessary. And we're now in that process of saying that AI is becoming sort of embedded in that process, and we're sort of looking at rather than people have to look for things using copilot and things like that to drive the mobile device, to make it more intuitive to use, more via voice activated, more responsive to those sorts of needs of the younger generation who don't want to go looking for stuff.
- And as we work through AI in the background, we want to be able to see those sorts of recommendations for things coming through rather than presenting with a lot of information saying here's everything. We want it to say we've been through the information, this is what we recommend. Would you like to follow this or do something else? So having that as an extension of what you're doing rather than something that is what we're used to, particularly for those of us who are using mobility and the very, very early 2000s, which was very straightforward but detailed.
- So, what are we doing with mobility? We are rebuilding. Well, the technology we've used underlying our mobility platform, mobile work order has come to end of life and we are rebuilding on a modern technology platform to do that with. And that's giving us the opportunity to start investing in new and interesting functionality there as well. And also to embed Co pilot and AI into the process.
- So, one of the things that we are going to attempt to have out this year is to have GIS for the first time in our mobile solution for those people who are using geographic information systems. So, on a mobility front, I went through all the analysts last week trying to see if any had put a number on it to see if we actually did hit that 51% because that was the prediction. None of the analysts have released details yet. The last analyst report of mobility that I could find that gave any sense of numbers or percentages of usage within our industry was Arc in 2022, but we find when we go through the RFP processes that that is always on the RFI or the RFP as it comes through. So it's now become a solid requirement as we go through.
- Any thoughts on mobility before I move on?
Poll: Is your organization considering adopting ISO 55000
- The next prediction we made out last year was on ISO 55000 2024 driving behaviour, and so I do have a question for you on that about ISO 55000. Before I start talking about it, I'm just interested to know whether you actually know what it is, whether you're certified, whether you're implementing, whether it's a thought process that's taking place, just getting a grasp of where you guys feel you’re at.

Slide: ISO 55000:2024
- So, maybe first of all just a little bit on ISO feedback. ISO 55000 is an international asset standard. It has been around for about 10 years, but as a standard it it's got 5 main drivers, one it's outcome focused. It's about what we get out the back end of asset management rather than the day-to-day maintenance of that asset. It is about making decisions on those assets that we do maintenance and we do performance on of making sure that we're looking at the asset in the context of the unit, the organisation, while it's trying to achieve and where it's going. So there is a linkage between strategy, operations and finance. So it's all about balancing risk, versus cost, versus performance. And it's about aligning not just technology, we help look after the technology aspect, but it's about people and how they work together because often decisions to do with assets are made by totally unrelated groups of people. And it's trying to bring that back. So that means alignment throughout the organisation. A whole of life, perspective of assets and trying to get the right cultural leadership working with an organisation. So, the standard is not a prescriptive standard, it's a set of guidelines on the full asset management lifecycle that takes place.
- And for us, the interest is that we have seen that as a requirement come up almost universally across people looking for new systems, people are asking are you ISO 55000 compliant? We're like, well, no, because the software isn't where the compliance is, it's processes, but we will support you with your ISO 55000 journey. One of the key drivers for acquiring Copperleaf was that it helped with that ISO 55000 story. Kevin talked about the asset life cycle management journey in December. And Copperleaf provides us with the ability to align the strategies that an organisation has, understand the budgetary constraints for capital expenditure, and to provide us with a prioritisation of where we should be spending money et cetera. But it requires information from the fields. So one of the other things that's caught in that is anticipating or trying to calculate out when we expect the end of life, the probability of failure and they brought to great technology to bear with that as well. So, we're folding them into the IFS Cloud platform as part of that journey, that information will become available to people who buy those components to be able to start having that line of sight all the way up and down their asset line.
- We also continuing to invest in asset performance Management technologies to help support that so we understand in real time what's taking place on our assets, we bought a company about 2023 from P2. It's been folded into our organisation. They have an operational technology product which is forming the basis of our APM strategy, it's been in use in the oil and gas industry for 25 odd years. Companies as big as BHP Woodside Petroleum, et cetera are making use of that. Being able to have that feedback in and enable us to embed the AI components. So going beyond just mere anomaly detection and actually getting into some more fundamental information. I did mention Woodside Petroleum a moment ago. Woodside is tracking over a million sensors. I think it's 1.2 million sensors across their operation with that. But what it enables us to do is close that full cycle loop that we have within or trying to drive towards with our asset management lifestyle management story that we're doing where operations and maintenance is in the middle, and has been the core of what we've done for years and years and years and years. But now we're trying to inform those decisions properly and also bring up from the assets themselves information because they have stories to tell us as well that we might otherwise miss.
- And the last thing that we're doing in that area is AI, so anybody who's been listening to our story and the fact that we changed our website name to ifs.ai knows that we've been involved in AI. The very first use case that we created from the ground up within the application was for FMECA, which we released in 24R2. It's AI assisted FMECA to make the AI is actually embedded in that process to help determine which assets we should be doing for FMECA analysis on, helping us determine from our documentation and our history and everything else, what the failure modes actually are and help drive that process, it doesn't replace the reliability engineer by a long shot, but it helps save them time by trawling through all the information we have in presenting it in the way that makes sense that we can use. And that was the first rule built in use case that we did with generative AI combined with predictive types of AI.
- And that was our last prediction for last year that we would see a lot more in AI. And when I made that prediction I was not prepared for just what a difference 12 months has made in that area not just for us, but across the globe in every aspect of our business. You cannot go online and read the paper today without seeing AI being at the forefront. And for us in maintenance and asset management and asset life cycle management, these are really core.
Slide: Industrial AI – A Pragmatic Application
- So, the things that we've been working on for years and years is optimization. We've got several optimization engines that take things, whether it's in field service management or manufacturing scheduling and we also use in maintenance planning within heavy industry manufacturing as well. It's huge and the Copperleaf has actually done that for us as well with capital expenditure.
- Forecasting and simulation, we're seeing more and more and more of that and that's sort of the bucket that a lot of the features and functions that within the FMECA analysis come through, where we're trying to look out, away and what we're doing with APM in terms of anomaly detection. But we don't do just anomaly detection on assets, we do anomaly detection on invoice receipts, and all sorts of things, to see if something is out of the norm and trying to understand why what the possible causes are for that sort of thing.
- But the last year has been big on generative AI. It was coming to the fore at the end of 2023, but it's really pushed through this year. It's the lead that we do now with being able to ask in English or mainly English, but moving to other languages as well on asking a question and getting a response from the information that we have. And having the system find it for us based on words, and then returning us the answer in words in summarization form. So maybe if I'm on the system and I want to know what work has been done on a particular asset. I type it in, it goes and does the research and comes back and actually says that this is the work that was done last year or these were the key things that were done yesterday that we need to focus on today. So doing almost a shift handover summary type thing. So, the sort of things that we can do with generative AI are very, very large.
Poll: In order of importance what is important to you for AI delivery from IFS?
- So again, just another question for you guys. Now that I've sort of talked this one through. This is around in order of importance. What is important to you guys in AI delivery from IFS. This helps us understand where we should be focusing, but all you do is grab the six buttons on the left hand side and drag up and down. It's the same as done everywhere.

Customer 1:
- F: We're planning to do a lot with Internet of Things (IoT) and putting sensors on our equipment to check vibration analysis, and to help identify needs for maintenance before the machine has a problem. So that's a big push for us this year. And trying to get a lot of that data into IFS and then being able to analyse anomalies and things like that. It's all stuff that the operations group is interested in. Don't know if any of that would actually happen locally as part of the IoT device that it might have some capabilities like that on it or else it would have to get all the results into IFS and then have IFS do it. But that's part of it that's come up. So that's something that's of interest to us.
- R: It might be wise to have a look at what we're doing on the operational technology side to be able to consume that information and process it.
Customer 2:
- F: I put mine down in in the order at the moment we still have field service, so the optimization of the workforce is important to us. The same as the last gentleman. Our remote first, we spent a lot of time making sure our machines are connected and talking back and we can talk back to them, not just one way. In the last two years now. This year is to make sure that we start utilising that data. We start using that to reduce the amount of incidents going to the field, so the optimizations becomes harder. It becomes easier in the amount of calls, but actually the way we'll move our people towards desks, it helps us do that. The forecasting the simulation because our business is changing so fast is the marketplace, but also with our drive for remote first, that forecasting simulation. The normal models that we have don't work anymore, so rethinking that. Recommendations from AI, I think there's a lot of data within our systems that somebody with 20-30 years knowledge, it's great, it's fantastic, but we're retiring. So, we need that recommendation, that learning. And as you said earlier, the younger people coming in, they’ve always googled things. They've always had the answer come to them, so recommendations in AI with the right sort of data behind it is really good. So that contextual knowledge also comes around. So that was my thinking and how this all actually links together, but I still put optimization at the top because that's the piece that sits next to the customer and gives delivers a service.
Customer 3:
- F: So for us, because we have a good level of legacy systems and a good level of old working, well built systems, maybe in the construction and a lot of process that have been digitised, in an ongoing process and anomaly detection will be a good one that we could easily just key in any process and being able to track what is going on or what has gone on just to be able to be sure. That we can get better results or maybe even to optimise some process and be sure what is done is good. So, which brings together optimization and anomaly detection scenario so to say.
- R: The ability to bring those things together and combine the different types of AI that we're doing, I think is where we will be heading in the future as well. Having anomaly detection and optimization as separate things is where we're at the moment, but by beginning to combine them, I think there's a lot of greenfield stuff there that we can do, but that's an interesting thought for me to go back and contemplate.
Slide: Predictions
- Moving forward to this year to 2025. There was three drivers here. Capital efficiencies and the improvements there. Greater accuracy and resiliency for project cost projections and maintenance capacity to expand as we move forward.
Slide: Capital Efficiency – Decision Analytics for Capital Portfolios
- But the first one is on capital efficiency and what we're thinking there, part of what we've been doing because of capital efficiency and the requirements as we are all hovering around the low growth in GDP in everywhere we're at. A lot of organisations are having that capital spend suppressed and being able to use some form of decision analytics to help prioritise based on corporate needs, become higher and higher. And when we look at putting together how we expend our capital and where we expend our capital, being able to balance risk and cost against the performance of our assets and where we spend our money for replacement becomes more critical. So, if I decide to defer some expenditure, understanding the risk to the business by doing so becomes important, but also being able to shuffle, so I've got predictability, linearity in my capital expenditure run. But if I put in requests for a lot of capital for projects etcetera, and then I decide as part of that, or somebody else decides for me that we're going to cut that budget by 20%, being able to reoptimize that fairly quickly and understand what risks you're introducing into the business and making sure that the bean counters in our organisation understand what those risks are willing to accept them. It's easier to be able to provide that information to them in a digestible format rather than just saying to them. Oh, it's everything's going to help. Because they're going to say yeah, but if you can actually put together a submission that actually includes the impact on business risk as well as the performance of what you do and produce, it becomes more reflective.
- What I'm finding is a lot of the things that we can do with Copperleaf tends to have impact from some of the folks that we talked to on a regular basis. But our conversations that are not with that same audience, so typically it may be another area of your organisation that's responsible for those decisions somewhere to do capital planning, capitalise that investment and look at doing modifications as if it's hard to go through. When we look at the entire asset life cycle however, as we talked about in the last session, it's a part of the organisation. It's a part of what goes on. So, we're attempting to do is be able to bring more of what we can into the entire asset life cycle, rather than just focusing some of the classical elements that we have with maintenance.
- So, if we if we take those two components on capital efficiency and we choose to do things, the next thing is how do you execute on those, how do you move from, I've approved some capital expenditure to actually doing it. And capital expenditure can be, I need a new pump or it could be I need a new oil platform. It's quite a long range of things that can be covered in there. So, in many instances it might be something that we need to manage better when we implement. So, if I'm in a utility for example, and I'm going to replace a suburb with new water pipes, I'm going to replace a new electrical liner or new substation, those are more complex decisions that need to be weighed up against other things, but then we need to be able to deliver on that. And the question really is for a lot of organisations how well they do that.
Poll: How well does your organization operationalize capital projects?
- So, as we move into what we do in that area of the predictions and this is about doing things more efficiently, how many people are aware of the project management capability that we have in our system. Is there an understanding that we have a project management component to IFS Cloud? And, just on that, I'm also interested in how well people actually operationalize those sorts of decisions.

Customer 1:
- F: I think I scored us higher than I than I should have, but really our process is kind of manual I guess now that I think about it, I mean we have to capture in IT, have to capture all the serialisation and part number for all this equipment that needs to get capitalised and we use one system for that or ServiceNow and then have to put that into spreadsheets and then that goes to finance and then they capitalise all that together, but then the retirement part of it is always forgotten and lost. There's no real asset tag tracking and that kind of a thing. As far as just the project management goes, we were using project management and one of our groups who does a lot of work with contractors, wanted to have it's kind of like a portal. And basically, it allows people to sign in from a central location and take photos of their work, upload it, report it complete, notify the next person that their work is done. But it's really a portal and doesn't require all the user access set up and licencing that IFS would. So that was the only requirement unfortunately that IFS couldn't meet for that group, and even the IFS people do the demo, so that's where they would partner with a collaboration platform of some kind like that. We chose Inncircles, but there's others and it occurred to me that would be a great thing for IFS to buy at some point. Would be to acquire somebody who's got this collaboration platform to expand the project management capability because, like I said, that was the only thing missing and that seems to be a real driver for the groups that we're working with, who want to engage with contractors and have them basically automate a lot of the management and save on a lot of the time reporting and stuff.
- R: Understood. And there's been a lot of conversation about how to resolve that component in the solution. When were you looking at it?
- F: We looked at it, probably, I don't know, August or September of last year and then they made the decision I think in October to go with Inncircle. So, they're in the process of implementing it. They have high expectations. So, whether they can achieve everything that they want with automated workflow and notification of one group to the next is to be seen. It's not actually implemented yet, but that's in process right now. And we still use projects inside of IFS for the capitalization, for the financial tracking. But it's just really used by finance for that part of it.
Slide: Maintenance Capacity – The end game
- Maintenance capacity is an interesting concept.
- When we look at asset management, at least I have for almost 3 decades, we always find organisations that wanted to get to the highest level that they can of understanding their assets, understanding when they're going to fail, why, and doing something practically before it. And there's the one that's not on here actually it's prescriptive maintenance. It's also now being written as maintenance 5.0 and a couple other things they're trying to get to. The idea to get there though it takes time. Asset performance brings about the condition assessment and the condition details of those assets and we also have the strategy behind them and how to be able to manage it with that condition in mind, whether it's a function that's a replacement strategy or a function that's an extension of life, or whether it's something that's due for a particular risk that's built into it. These are things that we deal with on a daily basis, but these are things that we always have trouble automating. And these are things that we build capability as vendors for enterprise asset manage solutions as the performance solutions risk based and inspection solutions, you name it to try and get there. The reality that I've seen over 30 years at least is, as a general rule, folks aren't able to get to where they want to be in these practises. And in my opinion over the years is that the goals to get there, the predictions of adoptions that I've seen over the years, they're just really aggressive. Because the intent is always going to be the desire's always going to be there. But the practicality of getting there with everything else that goes on in the world is not really practical. So, what we've seen is folks that intend to drop the initiative to be able to go to a predictive maintenance rather than select certain assets to go after it. When we think about what we can do and where we could do and where the technology leads us to, I go back to understanding the very beginning of that equation. Where are my risks? What reliability approaches have I taken for them? What's the foundational strategy for be able to manage those? And then really select certain assets to be able to go after those. Not have it as a general practise, because when we do that, then we're hitting the right equipment at the right place at the right time for the right reasons, as opposed to coming up with a more of a platformed approach. It's an interesting idea to be able to continue to understand what we can do with the maintenance capacity that we do have in terms of data, equipment, people, intelligence, vendor participation, partner participation, a lot of other different types of things. But I've always seen that it's a bit more than we can handle. So, we have to be able to chew it in small pieces.
- On the on the back end of that, when we think about those components, what I've actually thrown up here is not the maintenance one visual and reactive maintenance two preventative maintenance, free condition based and maintenance for predictive and proactive or prescriptive. I've actually put up what Gartner looks at as being Asset Performance Management, which is that that journey that you go along because it covers most of those same sorts of things, and that's where we build the technology to try to match those things that Kevin was talking about. So with the asset strategy risk management side of things, that's what the Copperleaf acquisition has brought to us with their ability to be able to place assets and what we do with them in alignment with strategic needs and risk. So, balancing those things together and that's what that copper leaf module does for us specifically, particularly in the Copperleaf asset component.
- Reliability centred maintenance, an area where investing heavily in. We had the AI driven FMECA come out this year, but there's a lot more that we're hoping to achieve in that space. Certainly really digging into the AI side of driving that component.
- Condition based maintenance, this is what we're doing with the anomaly detection stuff that we brought through for people with servatization, that's been a great driver in that area there. But using the operational technology platform as the future for being able to bring in millions and millions of data points. And make practical, pragmatic decisions out of the back of it, with assistance of the sort of things that we can do there.
- And then the predictive maintenance. Being able to look at those trends, simulate what could happen and be able to do something as an area we're investing in heavily. But if you think about prescriptive maintenance, once you've got that FMECA circle working properly, being able to tie those together, get you somewhere.
Poll: In one word what do you think of when you hear the term Asset Performance Management?
- When somebody uses the term Asset performance management. What is it you think of? What's the first thing that comes into your head when somebody says that? Because it means so many different things to different people. I'd be interested to know what it means to people in this group.

Slide: Pulling it all together – Line of sight alignment for asset management
Just pulling all this together, it's all about the asset lifecycle management. It's about tying the strategy to the operational, and making sure that when we make strategic decisions, we take the operational into consideration and when we make operational decisions or tactical decisions, we're taking the strategy into consideration when we make those decisions. As tying all those pieces together to give us the best bang for our buck with the least risk and the best outcomes.
Questions / Answers / Feedback / Responses:
- Q: Regarding mobile and the GIS functionality, are you planning to have what you would expect to show in the arena client regarding the GIS integration? Or what type of information are you going to show in the on the mobile, and from what view?
- A: Right. So that's an excellent question. When it comes to the GIS on mobile. One of the core things from the GIS perspective, is that because we've acquired Copperleaf and we've acquired P2, which is forming the basis of our APM module, we are for the arena client looking at bringing all those three technologies together to a common platform. And there's actually quite interesting stuff, particularly out of Copperleaf, where you look at risk or condition of assets and you can drag along there and it'll actually show you the change in colour of condition of assets over time and the projected time if you're using their modules. So that's certainly going to be making it into the asset health. But we're looking at bringing together all of those components. The other product that we bought was Clevest. That's five years ago now. And they do field service management component. They have a lot of functionality on their mobile application which we're looking at bringing into the core solution and we'll be using some of that functionality as well. So the ability to lasso assets, redline assets, if we discover an asset in the field being able to create it via mobile. Being able to see where your work orders are in an easy way, using geolocation to help with those sorts of things, et cetera. We've got quite the shopping list of what we want to get in there. So, there's some down for 25R1 and some down for 25R2, but I suspect it'll be 25R2 when we get this, because we're also combining the platforms. So, it's a huge investment, but we're bringing together 4 separate GIS teams together to really modernise what we're doing with GIS, bringing it into what I would call the 21st century.
- F: Yep, sounds great and I recognise the plan because all the things you mentioned are Clevest and Copperleaf and things so great.
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